The following was left by Alicia as a comment about farmers markets and the expectations we have of the vendors. A few weeks afterwards, Farm to Family issued a response.
At the risk of making myself unpopular, I’m going to say it: I’ve got beef with the Veggie Bus guy.
Don’t get me wrong. I think what he’s trying to do is great, and I love the idea that anyone with the time and means can buy (or salvage) a bus and start a program in their own area. My ‘beef’ lies in the disconnect between principal and practice. I think that consumers have a right to make informed decisions, to know what they are buying, and to not be misled. I was all about getting on the bus, Gus… until I did. And then I was sad– and a little bit mad.
According to Mark Lilly’s (self-penned) Huffington Post blog entry entitled ‘Beginning,’ he has “created a perfect local, sustainable food distribution system that can penetrate any demographic area in any city or town with nutritious, tasty, organic, local food.” He goes on to say that he “[sources] local products from family, friends or anyone that grows clean food within a 150-mile radius of where I am located in Richmond, VA. I build relationships with local farmers, drive to their farm, load up the bus, and then distribute it into the urban landscape through set routes.” Although his straw-hat persona suggests otherwise, Mark is primarily peddles wares grown by others. I have no problem with Virginia farmers needing middlemen to get their goods to market so that they can keep running the farm. In fact, it’s a darn good idea… if only the execution matched the ideals.
The Farm to Family website states that “[Mark] is an expert in local food distribution, the slow food movement, marketing, CSA’s and setting up a successful small sustainable business concept.” I guess, in the same way that a person whose dog has had a littler of puppies might consider themselves a ‘dog breeder,’ he might be an expert. In which case, I’m an expert, too. I’ve read several books on the subject and I follow the ‘slow-food’ movement in the news and blogosphere and Twitterverse. I have also taken graduate and undergraduate courses in Natural Resources, Food Science, and Agriculture in which sustainability, the collapse of the global food chain, and alternatives to industrial farming practices were discussed ad nauseum. But I don’t go around calling myself an expert, because I’m not. I’m just a person with a strong interest in a subject who tries to educate themselves as much as possible. Mark has a bachelors degree in Fine Arts from VCU and took some courses for a Disaster Science degree at the University of Richmond — a degree which he did not finish. Now, I could care less that a person started taking courses and, for whatever reason(s), decided not to finish a program– but you do NOT get to call yourself an expert for so doing.
I rode with Mark in mid-April on one of his weekly runs to the Shenandoah Valley. We hit up the Shenandoah Valley Produce Auction in Dayton, VA, where he purchased rhubarb, strawberries, bean sprouts, asparagus, tomatoes, lettuce, watercress, herbs, and some flowers. Much of the produce up for auction was brought to market by large-scale Mennonite farmers– but some of it was also trucked in by other distributors from parts unknown. I watched Mark bidding because I was curious, once I saw how the auction worked, how he knew where the stuff he was buying came from. When I questioned this he said “Oh, I ask.” Well, maybe he does ask sometimes– but he did not ask that day.
Organic is a word thrown around a bunch in Farm to Family marketing, interviews, and blogs. On the side of the bus, Mark painted “How food secure is your family? Eat at home, cook, have fun! Don’t rely on a failing highly processed unsustainable TOXIC food system!” Toxic? Wow. Toxic implies chemicals. Food grown without chemicals (synthetic fertilizer, pesticides, and herbicides) is organic. So, everything on the bus must be organic, because otherwise, it would be toxic—grown with chemicals. Right?
Some of the asparagus purchased at the produce auction was both organic and local (to the Valley, grown in greenhouses… obviously, since it was April, in the Shenendoah Valley. I am definitely saying that with my best “in a van down by the RIVER” Chris Farley voice.); I schlepped boxes and helped pack the trailer, and the word ‘organic’ was absent from all but three boxes of asparagus. Given that slapping an organic label food generally gives it a premium price, you would expect that farmers and growers who put in the time and effort to raise said produce would make sure it was marketed and labeled as such. I chatted up one of the pleasant Mennonite women whose organic asparagus Mark had purchased– I have family from those parts, and as it turns out, my first bicycle came from her cousin’s shop. Small world. I digress. Anywho, she was telling me that they, the Mennonite farmers, don’t really see a profit on the organic produce, and therefore they don’t grow much of it. Most everything else was local, to my knowledge—lettuce and asparagus, for certain, were grown in Dayton. Strawberries came from Moseley, VA. But the potatoes? They either came from California or were packed in boxes that once held potatoes that came from California. (Potatoes? In April? IN THE VALLEY? Who knows. Stranger things have happened.)
We left the produce auction and headed to another part of the Valley (Fairfield, to be precise) to pick up the dairy items for his CSA customers—milk, yogurt, butter, and a soft pepper cheese spread. From there we motored on to Wade’s Mill in Raphine (for grits) and finally to Crown Orchard Company in Covesville to pick up some apples—delicious, juicy apples, so juicy I almost needed a bib.Wait!! Apples, grown in Virginia? In APRIL?? Ok, I don’t have the full scoop on the ‘taters, but the lukewarm news for the hard-core followers of the local food movement is that the Crown Orchard Company apples that are being peddled by F2F are ‘local’ (to Virginia); they were simply harvested last fall. Apples are often held in controlled atmosphere environments in which oxygen and carbon dioxide levels are maintained at optimum levels to delay the ripening/rotting process. I spoke with the company directly; Crown Orchard’s apples are held in 2% oxygen environment. Organic, however, they are not. Mr. Chiles said that “no sprays were used” (and I am assuming that by sprays he means pesticides) but that they were not ‘fully’ organic. Meaning, probably, a lot of synthetic fertilizers. What’s that about clean food?
Why am I writing this? I certainly do not want to put the bus out of business. I share the same food principles and values as Mark claims to. I just think it is lame that people aren’t necessarily buying what they think they are buying in the same way I think it is lame that skate meat sometimes gets passed off as scallops. I have a feeling that people would flock to the bus (and now, to the Market) regardless of whether the produce was local or organic. It’s a novelty, a fun place to shop. The produce, for the most part, is fresher than you will find in the grocery store, and by buying from Mark, you are supporting local (Virginia) businesses. It is certainly more convenient than making the rounds yourself, and Mark will even bring the bus to YOU, like he did during Snowmageddon. However, people have the right to be informed, to know that not everything they are buying is organic and to choose to buy or not buy based off of their own food principles and needs. And currently, the news, hype, and marketing practices of Farm to Family does (do?) not convey that fact.
To be fair, with regard to the labeling of produce on the bus, it’s not as though he is putting in writing, “these are local organic apples, this is local organic asparagus, these are local organic potatoes,” etc. But it is very much implied. Certainly, for the processed/packaged items sold on the bus (cider, honey, syrup, flour, grits and other grain products, etc.) people can read and see for themselves whether it is organic or not and whence it comes.
Finally, I take particular issue with the milk that was, at the time I worked with Mark and wrote this article, provided for CSA members and available for purchase on the bus. Labeled and marketed as “Meow Milk,” it said right on the label “Not for human consumption.” On Facebook, a CSA customer wrote on Farm to Family’s wall and asked about this. She said something along the lines of (forgive me for being too lazy to go back to 2009 and find the exact wording on this one!) ‘My milk says not for human consumption, should I be concerned or are they just re-using containers?’ Mark replied “It is fine, don’t worry about it.”
What he didn’t tell her was that the milk was thusly labeled because the dairy does not have a license to sell milk for human consumption.
WHAT??? No sir. NO. You do NOT get to make that choice for people!! Does he know the sort of sanitation conditions necessary for producing safe-to-drink milk? Can he assure anyone that those standards are being upheld in a facility with zero oversight? Does he know the kind of sick people can get from drinking bad milk– especially children and seniors?? And if that alone weren’t enough, on the farm’s website, it states that “All of our farmstead cheeses are made using raw milk from our dairy herd, cultures, rennet, sea salt as well as various herbs, spices, and peppers.” Raw milk?? Don’t get me wrong, it’s delicious– but I’m sorry, did this farm really invest in the infrastructure necessary for pasturizing milk that they aren’t allowed to sell?? That, I don’t have the answer to.Was he, or was he not, peddling raw milk? I probably wouldn’t get a straight answer if I called the dairy directly, because they were not supposed to be distributing milk in the first place. I certainly wouldn’t get a straight answer from Mark because he didn’t feel that his CSA customer deserved one.And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why I do not patronize the Farm to Family bus or market– because I do not tolerate such misrepresentations that border on outright lies. The fact that he put himself out there at the markets in direct competition with producers from whom he obtained his goods is just further proof, to me, that his business practices and my values system are not aligned.
Mark’s Huffington Post Blog, ‘Beginning’ entry
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-lilly/farm-to-family-beginning_b_554208.htmlInfo about the Apples:
For more information, see the Washington State University Tree Fruit Research and Extension Center publication “Controlled Atmosphere Storage of Apples and Pears” available at http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/EMK2001D.pdfFarm to Family website:
http://thefarmbus.com/
I feel like the bus should be supported with skepticism. He sounds like he is trying. I do doubt him and his character however and if someone else were to take over his operation or a competitor moved in they should be supported. I buy from Kruise farms at Lakeside farmers market because they are a really nice family and grow right next to the market. They are reasonable with prices as well. I once visited Farm to Family after buying a little dinner from Jazzbos (Jumbalaya) at the Byrd Farmers market. I bought some peppers I think. I placed my jumbalaya down and paid, I had a couple of bags with me so I accidently left the jumbalaya on his table. I went home, which is 5 minutes away, realized I didn’t have the jumbalaya and I went back to get it. At the Farm to Family tent I saw who must be Mark and I asked him about my jumbalaya, he said he hadn’t seen it. The odd thing was that he had a container the exact size of the jumbalaya I had purchased empty next to him with a spoon in it. He was also cleaning his face with a napkin. I looked at it as if to say, then what’s that and he looked at me and said that was his jumbalaya that he purchased. I believe every word you said about this guy not being credible and I want my jumbalaya back!
Huh. Interesting. Ya know, I called him about a speaking engagement once and he totally blew me off. Tried calling a few more times and got blown off over and over and then was told I’d get a call back and never did, even after multiple follow-ups. Haven’t visited the bus since. He was rude. :\
Damn hippie wanna-bees. Pulling the wool over the eyes of the millenials.
“[Mark] is an expert in local food distribution, the slow food movement, marketing, CSA’s and setting up a successful small sustainable business concept.”
This “expert” in in setting up a small sustainable business concept relies on volunteers to help on his pick-up runs to support his for-profit business. If he can get away with duping people into pretty much giving him money to for the opportunity to work for him, more power to him, I guess. My suspision is that, in the long term, he is going to have trouble sustaining that model.
And, this “expert” in marketing managed to alienate several of his customers by making multiple, politically charged statments on his company’s Facebook account. I, for one, found his statments so offensive that I refuse to ever give him a dime of my hard-earned money ever again.
Now, I learn that he is, through either deliberate action or lazy inaction, effectively lying to his customers about the sources of his produts. Class act.
But if he reads this, he need not worry that this blog lost me as a customer. Hi lost me as a customer a long time ago.
I think it’s ok for consenting adults to consume raw milk, but then I saw that a raw milk co-op was scolding people to rinse out their mason jars because the co-op doesn’t clean them! I would only drink raw milk from a sterilized container (if I had a desire to drink it, which I don’t). As messed up as US food policy is, inspections protect consumers if performed properly.
I want to support a non-industrial farm economy with old-fashioned food choices, but lax food safety practices aren’t quaint, they’re irresponsible. I can my salsa and pickles with USDA-tested recipes. I check with guests before cooking raw egg recipes like caesar salad and carbonara. I chose to get “free” raw milk goat cheese in Charlottesville and “donate” to the guy’s legal fund. But I’m pretty suspicious of raw milk distribution, because there’s no oversight to promote food safety.
I’ve visited the F2F bus several times randomly when I’ve seen it around, which made me want to invite it to my area of town and tell my community. The F2F bus does regularly stop about 10 blocks away in The Fan, but I live in an area with many older residents, and several of them were quite excited when I mentioned being able to walk to the bus at a neighborhood meeting. Therefore, I figured I’d scheduled a visit, since it seemed like a simple task. Unfortunately, it was anything but simple. First I called the F2F’s published phone number, which is Mark’s cell. Mark answered and told me he didn’t know his schedule and that I needed to call another number, which ended up being his wife’s number (at their brick & mortar building). That seemed odd, since the web site clearly says to call the published number to schedule a visit, but I went ahead and called his wife. She then told me to call…yes, you guessed it…the published number I called first. After I told her Mark had already referred me to her, she scheduled an appointment. I made the appointment a week in advance, since I wanted to notify my neighbors. An hour before Mark was scheduled to visit (5pm on a Friday), Mark called to say he couldn’t make it because he was going to end his day early due to not feeling well. While I can certainly understand someone not having a good day, I made mark aware I wanted to make this a regularly occurring visit and that I had about 10-15 neighbors excited about the F2F visit. He still said he wasn’t up to it. I then had to wait outside at the previously schedule time to let everyone know the F2F bus wasn’t coming. I would have loved to given F2F some regular business, but Mark didn’t seem too interested.
my neighborhood tried to get on the F2F circuit, but we were essentially told that we would have to walk to one of his other stops. There was a poll on the community blog that got over 40 people voting for a F2F stop in Byrd Park and at least one neighbor called while others posted on the F2F facebook. The response from Mark waw luke warm, so eventually, we just stopped bothering him.
I’d really like to see an insider’s take on Urban Farmhouse. Justin French was behind the establishment of that place while building his house of cards. Interestingly, he branded his contractor/developer company as eco-green this and sustainable/preservationist that (obviously a market ripe for scam-artists). From The Republic to Urban Farmhouse (both seemingly thriving), I wonder how much of French’s dishonesty factored into their construction and/or current practices.
Actually, he did a decent amount of eco-good while conning the rest of the city. A lot of The Republic is made from reclaimed or repurposed materials and they recycle. Can’t speak to Urban Farmhouse though…
Very interesting post, I’ve bought a couple of things off the bus, but never thought them the best buy at the market. It is clear that entirely local and organic purchasing is a challenge for all of us, it should be clear that the labeling should be accurate.
Regarding his “expertise,” we see a lot of that today, not just in this profession- PR, Journalism, Marketing… to start. As Mr. Lilly was appointed by Richmond to be on its Food Policy Council, so I guess that can officially deem him as viewed by your city as an expert…
To be fair, I even noted on your bio:
“I’ve got some expertise in the food arena, but no official training.” Is that really that different from Mr. Lilly?
You make great points about the bus and where the food comes from / whether it is truly natural, which is why consumers really need to always ask and read labels.
Regarding the Meow Milk, raw milk enthusiasts generally are very aware of how the farm they patronize operates, usually have visited it personally, so knowingly buy “shares” for “animal milk” because they are confident on the quality while skirting the law. (And note: Like urban hens, raw milk is perfectly legal now in many places throughout the USA)
But to distance yourself from your raw milk provider by 3rd party or not buying a share from a farm you know easily opens yourself to serious danger, and if you are a provider of raw milk you should fully educate the customer on the advantages and serious possibilities they are about to choose for their consumption- to have the responsibility to decide for themselves whether or not they are responsible for the risk is something the consumer must decide, not a vendor dismissively waving an, “Oh, it’s fine!”
Thanks for the food… for… thought.
Thanks for reading, Copeland. Just to be clear, the author of the post is a guest blogger, not me. So I’m not sure that I should be compared to Mark Lilly. But I also don’t think his critics should have to be experts if they’re going to recognize that his claim on the “expert” label is a little flimsy. If there’s one thing that getting clearer from all this, it’s the power of suggestion; branding and marketing ahead of principles and ethics. So, the City bought the hype. Who didn’t? I got a bag of semolina flour off the bus not that long ago. I’m not saying his service isn’t without merit, but the bad might be negating the good. If my zero-profit blog’s “about me” page has any relation to Farm to Family, it’s that I’m trying to be transparent. Doesn’t sound like that’s the case with Mr. Lilly’s veggie bus.
To be clear– I never said that Mt. View Dairy was definitely selling raw milk. I just raised the question, might they be, since it says on their website that their cheeses are made from raw milk. I LOVE raw milk– I also have two (separate) very close friends whose families are dairy farmers and have been for generations. According to the RECENTLY UPDATED F2F website, the milk for sale is “for cats” and is “lightly pasteurized.” You can paint a white stripe down the back of a black cat and call it a skunk… they still aren’t coming clean about the fact that the place doesn’t have a license to sell milk for human consumption. And to me, milk bottled in quart or half-gallon jugs is a bit much for old pussy cat to consume. I don’t have a problem with people choosing to drink the milk– BUT IT NEEDS TO BE THEIR CHOICE and they need to know WHY it’s labeled “Meow Milk.”
Alicia + Ellie — With reference to your questions about the milk sold at Farm to Family, Meow Milk is NOT raw but is graded as low pasteurized pet milk by VDACS (Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services). Pet Milk is legal to sell in the State of Virginia as long as it is labeled as such, and also contains the label “Not Intended for Human Consumption” and if the dairy has permits for it and registers with the appropriate government regulatory agencies. The Meow Milk we sell is labeled as such, with all other required information by VDACS by Mt. View Dairy. Per my VDACS inspector’s suggestion, we have food safety conversations with each of our customers as to what this means and also have signage clearly visible in the store stating food safety precautions regarding unpasteurized products, and raw meat, eggs, and shellfish. What customers do with products they purchase after they leave our store is their own business, however many of our customers do choose to consume the Meow Milk. Raw cheese, aged minimum of 60 days, is legal in the State of Virginia. Mt View Dairy holds a dairy permit with the State of Virginia, is inspected on a monthly basis by VDACS, the Virginia Department of Health, and has periodic inspections by the USDA and FDA, as well as spot inspections by all of these government agencies. Farm to Family is also regulated and inspected by VDACS and the milk fully checks out on all of our inspections by them. For more information on the health benefits on raw or low pasteurized dairy products, you may wish to visit http://www.realmilk.org or http://www.westonaprice.org. I hope this clarification on the dairy helps.
Using raw milk for producing cheese– which has additives used during the cheese-making process (salt, for one) that reduce the number and type of bacteria that can thrive in the medium– and consuming raw milk are two completely different things. The cheese-making process turns milk into another product entirely– and as I stated above, I have NO PROBLEM with people, myself included, consuming raw milk. I DO have a problem with people UNKNOWINGLY consuming something that they don’t choose to consume. Maybe since you, Suzi, have taken a greater role in the business, these practices have changed, but I have a screen shot of a Facebook conversation between Farm to Family and a customer in which the customer asked whether or not she should be worried because the label said ‘not for human consumption’ and F2F absolutely did NOT have that “Food Safety” conversation with her. This woman was asking specifically for her parents who had purchased some milk on the bus. I am SURE you are aware of the dangers that certain types of bacteria present for the very young, the elderly, and otherwise immunocompromised populations– and this is why the young, elderly, pregnant, and those with weakened immune systems are urged to not consume certain items, raw milk included. And why it is IMPERATIVE that F2F properly LABELS AND EDUCATES their customers, the consumers. The “low temperature” pasteurization that I am familiar with from my food science background is at 145 F for 30 minutes; this is also known as Vat pasteurization (as it can be done in a giant pot, or vat) and is adequate for many types of food that “require” pasteurization. A quick search of the VDACS website did not return any results for ‘low pasteurized’ anything. So, to recap: I don’t care if people drink raw milk, MEOW milk, horse milk or any kind of milk– I just think the people selling it shouldn’t be misleading.
I bought the milk from Farm to Family once and was never told about its risks. I got home and my family freaked out when they read the label. I went to read it and was so confused. They never pointed out anything.
RVA Girl, Please let me know if you have any more questions and I would be happy to answer them, or to direct you to someone who can. Alicia, thank you for your description of the low pasteurization process. FB is not the most accurate method of communicating with our customers, but it is often convenient. We were remiss in our communication on the Meow Milk at that time. We since try to do a better job.
Sorry to post anonymously, but I hope you’d understand. I’m a conflicted friend of F2F wife for years; love her dearly but I’m of the opinion that Mark is fraud. I met Mark in 2008, he was bouncing the F2F idea and I was an enthused supporter. Bringing organic groceries to RVA food deserts, awesome!
Within a few months of F2F launch, however, I’d hear him deriding how “these people” would get on the bus, look around, leave empty handed, walk down to McDonald’s and spend their money there. He decided he’d abandon the “mission” and focus on making it a biz. I said there’s nothing wrong with that, but I urged him to stay with the mission. “Maybe once a week,” I remember telling him, “Make your money in the neighborhoods that can support you. But once a week, go to the low-income areas and sell the produce at cost or minimal profit. You need the mission, otherwise, you’re no different than a mobile Kroger.”
Boy, was I ever wrong. His deceptions continue to root deeper still, his wife’s marketing and publicity talent got him national attentions, and there are enough innocent Richmonders, heck Americans – now that he’s on Nat’l platform, who believe his spiel. Good for them F2F, I suppose.
I stopped buying produce from F2F probably six months into his operation. Every now and then he’d see me coming out of Ellwood Thompson or wherever, then I’d feel obligated to step into the bus. Being in the food biz myself, I know what the produce auction mean, that not all his produce are organic, and I’m OK with that, but tell me straight up when I ask. The fact that he has no problem lying to my face about the origins of his produce, someone he knows more than as a customer, that just blow my mind. Of course, I’m too chicken to call him out, I just ignore him and bought a Wade’s Mill something instead, something I know is actually good and honest.
He got kicked off SOTJ Market coz he convinced several local farms (inc. the beloved Victory Farms) to sell their produce to him at discounted price so he could sell the organic produce in the food deserts. Sadly, I was not surprised that he parked his bus there to compete directly with the farmers’ hands who helped him in the first place. That’s the one time I cheered Mkt Umbrella for kicking a vendor off of SOTJ.
The most disturbing effect, to me, is how many people and institutions continue to believe in his deceptions and he takes away money from more deserving local champions/activists. Last I heard, F2F is one of a handful grant recipients from Bon Secour, grants that are given out to entrepreneurs (like Proper Pie Company and Sub Rosa Bakery) willing to bring opportunities, help, vibrancy to the East End.
I hope Mark would prove me wrong, that this time he will actually use the money to bring fresh produce to East End food deserts. I would love to be wrong this one time.
Bravo. Thanks for commenting….I, for one, am glad Richmond might finally begin to see this place/person for what it/he is. Maybe someone could start an actual non-profit and make this work and accomplish the goals Mr. Lilly says he is trying to do…I’ll call Oprah and let her know she was duped
As luck would have it, RTD just did a story on Shalom Farms in Goochland…check the story out.
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2011/dec/18/tdmain01-a-healthy-look-at-food-ar-1551947/
Shalom Farms is awesome. I’ve worked with Dominic on several occasions, the Farms donated veggies that we use for RVA Chefs to Schools family cooking classes and RPS farm-to-schools dinners events.
About time they get the recognition!
Well since I lost my job already it doesn’t matter if I tell my side of the story. I was a loyal customer and employee of F2F for the past 3 months or so. I stocked the veggies, worked the register and even fed and cleaned up after Mark (which was part of the job description). I totally agree with anonymous poster, I thoroughly enjoyed Suzi and thought she was a very intelligent and thoughtful person, Mark on the other hand was quite the opposite. When I started there the greenhouse, that they have conveniently attached to their business was filled with junk that almost reached the ceiling in some areas. Being an uncertified organic farmer I suggested cleaning the greenhouse out and using it for some good. So on our free time my partner and I began trying to grow in the greenhouse. Mark had a great idea to start a non-profit that would teach the community how to sustainably grow food for themselves. Naturally, I was all about it. I told them that a workshop was coming and that I had considered becoming a bio-intensive certified teacher and would be love to help them in their non-profit. So I asked if they would sponsor me starting my certification. Mark agreed and I went to California to began my teaching career. Mark had told me that I would be the head teacher in the non-profit and would be in charge of planning a sustainable market garden on the F2F grounds. Everything was looking great. However, I did not realize that Mark had no intentions of letting me do anything on my own. He wanted to tear down the cedar posted-pine tables we were planting in to put up growing boxes made chemically treated wood and lining them with plastic. Yes, you heard me right! I strongly disagreed. As I did with several of Mark’s ideas. If he only said that cause he thought he was doing the right thing then we are not on the same page. Long story short when I found out that the auction that he religiously depends on, was not selling organic, natural, or even local veggies sometimes I had a word in private with Suzi. I did not say anything to anyone else. When Mark came in and Suzi had told him what I said, Mark came out and yelled at me that he does not get his food from CHINA! I never implied that he did. He started getting loud with me and kept saying “what do you expect me know all the farmers practices”, “that would take to much time and effort” and that he doesn’t have the time for that. I simply responded “YES” that is exactly what I expect. Then he said I was trying to destroy him and he doesn’t know why. I never set out to destroy anyone. I just want the truth! When I came to work the next day I told them that I would not tell the customers that this was clean food and that I needed to know where the veggies are coming from, and from then on or I would no push them on the community without knowing the source and their practices. Two days later this blog popped up and I was laid off and so was my partner who used to drive for Mark to the Valley and help him at the auction. They said they had to let us go for economic reasons but they were very mean about it and told us to come get our stuff out of the greenhouse and anything else we had at the market immediately. Mark had also convinced us that it would be a good idea to get on their phone plan since I was to be their “Head Teaching Instructor” and my partner was to be their “Head Chef”, so we listened to Mark and switched our phones. When they let us go they also took our phones and all of this was done 1 week before Christmas. We have 4 children that did not get anything for Christmas this year and we have no phones or jobs to boot. We kept our mouth shut for long enough! Mark is a swindler and liar. Oh and to top it all off after he “laid us off” we still were going to pay him for wood to heat our home since we us wood stoves and have no central heating system and he never brought it to us. We waited for 2 days until he finally said just go get some to get through the night. So we did just to find out that the wood he claimed to oak was actually pine! (Pine is not okay to burn because it has to much creosote and could cause a chimney fire) but mark doesn’t care and lied to us again just to make money.
You proved once again what a colossal asshole you are and why you are not to be trusted. Go buy your own damn bus and vegetables if you think you can do a better job. You are mostly good at admiring yourself.
Clark, the number of people with their own stories would leave me to believe Jason isn’t just making things up. No one said what Mark is doing isn’t worthy of praise, just that he should be fully transparent. In this age of consumerism, is that too much to ask? I don’t think so.
You know what John. Foodie has never run a restaurant or business in his life, but he is good at telling other people how to run theirs.
we need a special short bus to take Clark back to school.
Clark, I agreed with John on transparency, and I have run a restaurant and am still a business owner.
In this food biz, customers TRUST us with the food they are about to put into their body. I don’t think it’s unrealistic for the customers to ask questions about the origins and integrity of the food, especially from sellers who claim or imply “farm to table/family” whether it’s F2F, Ellwood Thompson, Whole Foods, or Kroger’s Natural Food section. The assumption of the term “farm to whatever” is “organic foods are sold here”. It’s the responsibility of the sellers to label things properly so consumers can make their own decision, and hopefully educate those customers along the way. That’s what make this whole organic, locavore movement so exciting and different from the big-box food factories, right?
I used to buy produce from Mark when I had Savor, but I stopped because I couldn’t get a straight answer from him re the produce whether it was organic or non-GMO or conventional. I didn’t buy strictly organic, but I did give credit to the producer/farms when I put local, organic food on the menu, because it costed more and I thought it’s only fair that my customers knew why they’re buying this salad at a higher price because I sourced the ingredients locally and organically, and I could stand 100% behind it. I shopped F2F for my own consumption because I was not and am not strict on organic, and I would rather support local businesses.
In F2F case, I think it’s fair for the commenters on this blog to demand more transparency from F2F, because F2F operates with their “mission” on their sleeves.
Anytime a business (for profit and non profit alike) touted their community commitment /cause/mission, even as simple as buying local and supporting local farms, that business is bound to be questioned and it has to be able to show proof over their “claim”. I certainly got many questions over what I served, and thankfully, not all customers were hung-up over their personal philosophy. Many understood why I couldn’t afford to go on organic meat on an $8 sandwich with organic side salad. But they asked fair question since I used “we sourced organic, locally grown or produced items as much as possible”. It’s all fair game, I used a mission to entice you customers, you had every right to know why you should spend your money here. F2F is now simply being questioned.
In my haste, I neglected to say that I think F2F serves an important role by providing a retail outlet for small VA producers (oysters, soap, baked goods, etc.) that otherwise won’t have the exposure. Clearer/more transparent labels on the origins of the produce and dairy (referring to the “meow milk” above) would definitely help. Thanks.
Absolutely agree, EllieB! Couldn’t have said it better if I tried.
Just a reminder, Jason (“Foodie”) didn’t write this. Someone names “Alicia” did.
I don’t live in Richmond, but I saw the bus once at a local food event in another part of Virginia. After hearing Mark speak about the bus I was interested and stepped outside to check it out. He was rude and standoffish from the minute I stepped on. Not friendly at all. Not eager to help or answer questions or tell me about how the bus worked. Even though the event was not over for several more hours, he acted like he was about to leave. He was not friendly. I was the only one on the bus, so I walked up and down the aisle once to be polite and then left quickly. I was not impressed.
So, I actually, in a way, stood up for the Farm to Family bus, cause, store, etc in the original post by Jason. Wouldn’t ya know that 2 or 3 days later, my mind would be changed!!! I have supported their cause through my in-store business, through promotion on my pages, including my personal Facebook page.
Well, one day they posted on Facebook that Mark would be out and about on his Grandpa’s truck with Christmas trees on it. He would be in certain areas of the city and to call Mark if interested. Actually, here is the exact post from December 9th:
“I’m headed out now with Christmas trees if anyone wants one call me @8043977337 I will be in Church hill and the west end, driving my granddads old 1963 chevy pickup! Got frazier firs good price, 5,6,7 footers $30-$45-$60 bucks!”
Great! Here are the posts back and forth after I saw the post:
“Shannon–Will he take a check? No cash on me at home. Also…I am in Mechanicsville.”
Farm to Family–”Mark can take credit cards. no problem.”
Shannon–”Just spoke with him.
Gettin’ one this afternoon. Thanks!!! Still have a crippled foot/ankle and this is so helpful!”
I figured Mark was out and about, trying to get rid of trees. What do you think?
Well, I set up a 4 pm time for him to deliver the tree and told him what size I wanted. I called at 4:15 to let him know that I was available. He said it would be about another hour. Come 6:15, I had to go. I texted him that we would have to do it another time and that I needed to leave my house. He quickly called me, apologized and said he was “swamped.” He told me he could just drop it off at my house later. I agreed. Later that evening, he texted me to call the store and pay $65. $65??? Umm, it said $45? He then proceeded to tell me there was tax and a delivery fee! I live in Mechanicsville! There was never a mention of a delivery fee in the Facebook post or even in the phone calls or texts. I disputed this and heard nothing back until later that night when I got a text saying, “Just pay what you want. Merry Christmas.” Dude! You should mention this stuff, from a business stand-point! My husband soooo wanted to drive that tree back up there and return it, then just buy it back, considering we live right up the road. I, then, got a Facebook message from Suzi the next morning that my bill was $67.25. So, again, it went up. I called, paid the shit and just shook my head. I wanted to say, “And to think I just stood up for y’all on a blog post,” but kept my mouth shut. I told her I was in a bad motor vehicle accident in October and am walking with a cane now. (She knew this before this day, too) It was going to be nice to not have to walk around a tree lot, even at 33 year-old. Plus, he was late. Really late from the original time we agreed. Also, I watched over the next couple of weeks. Never, ever did they include a delivery fee in their future Facebook posts.
Tisk, tisk. I know they didn’t grow the trees, but it ended up being the worst tree ever bought. Never again. It was pretty for about 4 days. Could have done so much better up the road at Home Depot for less than the $45 + “delivery fee.” Wonder what he charged the Chesterfield people? Can anyone please tell me? Did anyone else get charged a hidden delivery fee? How about did anyone NOT get charged a delivery fee?
Shannon, I did not know that you were so dissatisfied with the tree and the delivery to your home in the Old Church area, after we did the transaction over the phone. When you and I spoke the morning after the delivery, I explained everything in detail to you, including the price and that by law we are required to charge VA state tax. I also apologized if Mark had neglected to tell you about the delivery charge, but that we had previously posted it on Facebook/twitter several times. I said that I know FB is not the most reliable method of doing business and I think I offered to waive the delivery fee. When we talked and in my message to you I acknowledged that you had been unhappy with your delivery and the omission of letting you know about the delivery fee and I asked you if you were ok with it, and you said yes. You should have said no, I would never have charged you at the time and now I would like to refund you the cost of the tree, the tax and the delivery fee. I am sorry for the stress and inconvenience caused particularly with your injury. I’m that you felt your tree was not pretty – my tree at home is still holding up well and I have heard from many others how happy they were. Please give me a call at the market to discuss 804-767-8570. I appreciate you standing up for us in the blog post. Sincerely, Suzi Lilly
Yes, you did explain everything to me, after the “delivery.” I went back and looked and only one post contained info about a delivery fee. I am not going to argue over money and what you think you should receive for delivering a tree. Mark knew I was not happy with it, thus his “Pay whatever you want. Merry Christmas” text. I have tried hard with this tree to make it hold up. My ornaments have been falling off for a week because the branches don’t hold them. Like I said, I know you did not grow the trees. There was numerous “opportunities” for a delivery fee to be mentioned. I even cancelled the transaction and was told he would just drop it off at my house, sight unseen, because he was so late. Hey, as I was told, “Merry Christmas!”
Can you give me a call in the morning 767-8570 so that I can get your info to do your refund. I value you as a customer, as I do all my customers. Thank you Shannon.
Mark and I have recently been made aware of the many questions, comments, opinions and concerns expressed on this blog regarding Farm to Family in both Jason’s post on the trend toward grower’s only farmers markets and in Alicia’s subsequent critique of our Farm Bus. I don’t know either of these people. We are concerned about remarks made here about our business, our reputation, ourselves and are taking your feedback very seriously. We are making positive changes to make things better. We are a fairly new business (3 years), and we don’t have all the answers. We are human beings who make mistakes, sometimes things slip through the cracks and we are sincerely sorry if we offended anyone. We are a work in progress and we are trying to do a better job with a complicated business with all the passion we can. We don’t have any support network and we are trying to do this as well as we can with what little resources we have available to us. Please have patience with us,– the world is changing quickly and there are not a lot of clear cut answers on what is exactly the right thing to do or how to do it. At the end of the day, hopefully we have helped someone or made their life a little easier.
My goal in writing is not to further antagonize anyone, or stir the pot anymore than it is already but I do want to address major inaccuracies and connect with everyone here so that we can better serve our customers. Unfortunately I am not going to address everyone’s statements individually, as I don’t want to take up more space than I am already. Please contact me off this blog if you want to talk to me about anything as I feel phone or in person communication is more effective. I feel that people need to work together and support each other, our world is hard enough, and I hope that we can all move forward and do that.
People who have immediate concerns and questions about anything that I have written, or has been written here about us, or anything we do, or our business, or anything Mark or I have said, especially about source of our produce and other goods, or if you have received unacceptable customer service, please address me about it. If you do not tell us you are unhappy, we may not know about it and can’t do anything about it. We are not in this business to upset anyone, or rip you off and we want you to be happy with what we do, or we will refund your money or do whatever else it takes to resolve the situation. We will do our best to answer you or rectify the situation. Our email is farmtofamilyinfo (at) gmail.com or phone 804-767-8570. You can also come to our market at 2817 Mechanicsville Turnpike, RVA 23223. We extend an open invitation to anyone who wishes to learn more about Farm to Family or our business to come hang out with me at the market, or to accompany Mark on any of his foraging trips.
Farm to Family sources from our local food shed. The farthest away we source is 168.27 miles in Bolar, VA for maple syrup, but we are trying to source with farmers closer to home. We occasionally cross state lines into NC or Maryland for items such as kiwi, or butterbeans and recently have gotten sweet potatoes from out of state, but its still within our food shed. You can visit our website http://thefarmbus.com/food/ for a list of all items sold, farm/vendor of origin, and their location, and website if they have one. We also now have these listed in our market along with growing practices and certifications to the best of our knowledge. I havent yet figured out how best to do this on the bus, but am open to any suggetions. Not all ingredients in artisanally made food items are local or organic but the people who make them are from our food shed. Some accessories sold in our store are not local, but may make your life more sustainable and enjoyable (reusable produce bags, cheese cloth, tea infusers and honey dippers).
All of our current farmers, aggregators and 3rd party distributors are open to your questions about their growing practices and origin of product, including the Shenandoah Valley Produce Auction in Dayton Virginia, who we do work with on a regular basis.
SVPA does auction items from out of state and of varying agricultural practices but they also work with excellent farmers with very clean growing practices, many who are USDA certified organic, or with other certifications, some of whom are Mennonite (not Amish). Many of these Mennonites have extremely sustainable farming practices, save seeds and work with hoophouses to extend the growing season. They use alternative methods to control pests and fungus. Many of them farm with organic or natural farming practices, but choose to not be certified for many reasons (time, money, government involvement). Mark has spent a lot of time getting to know these farmers and has visited their farms. We respect what they do and how they do it. Unfortunately Richmond does not have a food hub, and the auction serves that purpose for us as well as many other prominent produce buyers in the Richmond area. In addition to our work with the auction, we are increasingly trying to source closer to home as much as possible.
Many people automatically assume that everything we sell we grow ourselves, or is USDA Certified Organic. That is not true. We work with other farmers to help sell the food that they grow. Some of the fruits and veggies we source are USDA Certified Organic, but mostly we work with small farmers who use organic or natural methods but are not certified (farms generating less than $5,000 per year are not required to certify by the USDA), so the majority of our farmers are Natural Certified, or are natural growers (using Natural Certified methods but not certified). Our fruit farmers (Agriberry, Crown Orchards, Saunders Brothers) use integrative pest management methods. From time to time something we sell may be conventional and will be labeled as such. The meat, dairy and poultry products we sell are pastured, and are hand-raised without antibiotics or hormones, and are all inspected and/or processed under their respective government supervision when not exempted. All the dairy is legal to sell in the state of Virginia and is inspected monthly at minimum and also spot checked by VDACS, USDA and the Health Department. I personally try to educate our customers as much as I can either verbally, with signage or by directing them to where they can find more information. We work closely with VDACS, who is our regulatory agency. If you have questions, ask us.
I have spoken with all of our current farmers about your requests for information on farming practices and transparency. Mark has met with SVPA auction management regarding concerns we and other buyers have about transparency and organization of produce. He made suggestions to the effect that all items be clearly labeled with farm of origin, location of the farm, and farming practice, and that out of state items be separated from Virginia items. They have agreed and will be implementing these changes next auction season. Anyone interested in talking with the auction manager regarding our patronage of the auction, farming practices of anyone participating in the auction including the Mennonite farmers are welcome to call him. The reputation and business of all of our farmers, vendors, aggregators is also at stake here, as well as the wellbeing of all of our customers, so we wish to address your concerns with accuracy and speed.
We are not farmers, nor have we represented ourselves as such, although from before the beginning of our business we have grown food ourselves at our home. We still grow food at home and now we also strive to grow on land at our market to sell on the bus and at the market and indeed were doing so at the point we left the SOTJ. We are distributors of food, and we are proud to do that. We would like to be spending more time with our bus in areas that don’t have as much access to fresh food, but the unfortunate reality is that in order to stay in business here in Richmond, we have had to go to other areas. This is a very hard time economically for small businesses so we are doing what we have to to stay open, and soon we hope that things are moving into place so we can return on a more regular basis to underserved areas. In the meantime, our market is located on the edge of Church Hill and Highland Park, areas that we have visited with the bus, and is within walking distance for many of our customers. We feel the area where our market is in (which is a short bike ride from our home) is diverse racially and economically, although demographics state that it is primarily African Amerian. We do take food stamps, also for our shares.
Thank you for your time and again, please contact us directly if you have any further questions, issues, concerns.
This has been reposted as a separate entry here: http://www.rvafoodie.com/2011/12/a-response-from-farm-to-family/
The guy is an opportunistic, if not a fraud. He showed up at the Hallowneen on Hanover Ave., event year before last, without asking, parked his bus on our street in the middle of the crowd, and CHARGED money for people to visit his bus (Halloween theme). Now I am all for folks making money, but we on Hanover pay to get permits for this event, pay for the police to be there to monitor, etc., and then this guy shows up and takes advanatage of the crowd.
Also heard from a former employee of his many of the same comments that have been posted above.
I would be very leary of anything purchased from this guy. You won’t be able to tell what is authentic and what is not.